Perfectionism- A Rant

[Kayleigh]

This will probably come out a bit jumbled. I have been reading and TRYING self-help methods for years and I seem to sabotage myself more and more! What a load of crap! I don't mean the techniques I mean me. I seem to be at extreme optimism one minute and despair the next. In the pursuit of a wonderful life I have been looking for a perfect life and ended up with almost NO life.

I am posting this in request for help I guess. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired which seems a very good place to be. Except I've been here before and my life didn't get much better. I sound like I'm in a Woody Allen film! Please share any similar experiences and how you overcame this. Self-sabotage sucks!

Yes i sound like an angry teenager but I'm sick of trying to be positive when I feel so bad. Grrr.

[rollthered]

  i get that- me too. When i' m good i'm VERY VERY good, and when i'm bad i'm rotten! Thing is having climbed the self- help moutnain once, and sat on the summit, smug as a bug, thinking i'd killed off the 'old 'me prior to self help....i then stopped beign so mindful and careful to maintain my new zen like inner peace..a peace that let me see ALL the beauty and feel so alive. The problem with refacing that mountain climb again, as i am now restanding at its foot, and intimidated by the climb..is now i KNOW better to have slipped back down. And THAT is the killer that makes the yoyo from oiptimist to pessimist so hard.
 I feel you, and the frustrateion, coz i feel it too....there is work to be done....i guess we both better leave the ego behind, and not throw the baby out with th bathwater just because progrees is inch by inch slow....it did ???nt take a week to get to this place, and ist sure as hell shouldnt surprise us if it takes more than a week to get out of it..

that any comfort?

[Kayleigh]

Haha I guess so. I just don't want what you said to be true. Just feels like I've been sold a bunch of lies by self-help products that promised fast results! And I've realised contradictions that are perhaps more paradoxes too. For example The Artist's Way amongst many others says "forget yourself" while Conversations with God and others say "Concentrate only on yourself and become what you want to be". Similarly, the same "expert" will say "Be yourself" as well as "You can be anything you want to be". I understand the subtle differences, yet I am starting to lean towards hopelessness. That maybe I can't have what I want and it was a big fat lie. I know that sounds blasphemous against Michael's book!  It just seems so hard for me to have what I want and want what I have (that's one book I haven't read) 

[rollthered]

i understand what you mean....but the truth is as simple as this...that if happiness and inner peace were so easily won, or attained,..then everyone would be happy and at one with themselves! The truth is the books all contradict each other, because each book is someones own truth, the truth that works for them, that breaks down the world into a reality that is bitesize enough to give them a meaning...so the only universal truth is that there is no one right answer for everyone, and the only mission we really have is to find our own truth. No one before or after you has had ur life, and ur life experience, therefore ur truth will differ to mine. I may relate to another on a similar path , but my path is my own, the more similar to anothers the more close my alliance will be. Dont dispair, because the 'man upstairs' hasnt sent down a manual of instruction for each of us, as to what to do with our life (although, that would have been smart of him ) sure if we had that, and all the answers before us....well, there aint no life in that!

For what it is worth...i have found one book irreplacable...i would rather have hit upon it, then win the lotto...It is a gem. Maybe it is for you...u make up ur own mind...Marcus Aurelius's Book 'Meditations'.
That is only my truth...whether that is urs is up to you....

in everything in life...you gotta pay the price...and happiness, so rewarding, surely deserves as much attention as you have to give it..u may struggle in vain, you feel, but that is because, right now,  u cant see the point of the struggle.....but i remeber a time when i couldnt tie my own shoelace, and i couldnt see the point of practising on this stupid carboard cut out shoe i was given as a kid...then one day, u knwo what? like u, i just did it.....its part of your growth, there is a plan, just keep that faith, and plough on...all will be revealed in time...believe if only to believe....take comfort in others struggling and seeking too.and then one day, you wont need to try to believe or remember to keep the chin up.....u will see 'the why' and overcoming ur own struggle, will give u an inner strength and confidence...to have faced urself, and know who looks back at u in the mirror.U will have nothing to fear... I ask you one thing...there are very few certainties in life, bar vital statistics, ur age, name, gender, nationality etc....what if the rest, all those things outside those immovable facts....all that  that you think you cant reach right now...what if you could and u just havent realised yet that u can ? make 'yet' now.

[marksherwood]

Hi Kristen,

Interesting post.

This may sound like an incredibly obvious thing to do (and apologies if you have already done this) But, have you considered visiting an NLP practitioner local to yourself ?

IMHO, reading books and visiting online forums are a great way to ask for advice / help (and a powerful method for getting the rest of us thinkinig !)..but, (again IMHO) do you truly believe that the answers to your questions are here, online or in a book ? After all, to use the old coaching maxim, 'we already know the answers, we just dont know that we know them'

Once again, apologies if you have already tried this route.

Mark

[Inspired]

I agree with with Mark that it is a very interesting topic!

I completely understand what you are talking about Kirsten but am unable to offer much more than rollthered has excellently offered.

A few years ago, I had one great passion (I have upgraded it since then) and spent my life trying to follow what I called the 'Way'. I had immersed myself in writings from the great proponents of this way and tried to live my whole life in accordance to their teachings. Trouble was that I ended up always striving and never arriving!! Now, always striving and never arriving fantastically captures the concept of perfection (for me at least), and although it sounds a little negative (it implies that you never achieve what you wish to) I believe that there is a defining factor that will tell you whether it is a good approach for you or not. The question is: "Do you enjoy the striving?". I get the feeling you don't. If you enjoy the striving, does it really matter if you ever arrive? It has been said many a time that the value lies in the journey not the destination.

so, to finish my story...I pursued my passion so fervently I was invited to go and study with the highest teacher in our organisation for an extended period of time. Of course I took up this offer and as soon as I did I wrote down all the challenges I was having and the questions I would ask to shed light on my situation. The very first one I asked my loving teacher when he said, 'Andy, what are your questions' (he often knows what I wish for before I tell him!!) was 'All I want to do is to stay on the path and follow the way..' at which point he abruptly interjected and said 'Andy, THERE IS NO WAY, there is only YOUR way' there was no point me even finishing my orginal question... I had learnt what I needed to learn. In NLP terms I guess he challenged my presupposition. That was a great learning for me.

Over the last few years I have changed from constantly beating myself up for not being better and to be better, to enjoying all the things that I do to try to make me better, all the courses, all the reading, forums ( ) etc. Instead of focussing on becoming a 'Developed Person', I work on 'Personal Development', focussing on the journey and not the destination. I have realised that I LOVE learning, and that may improve me, or it may not but I love it anyway!! Returning to your mountain analogy, so you are climbing the mountain and focussing on the summit, but why not pause a second and look around you, focus on the steps you are taking and see if there is something that you can appreciate with each one. If you come to a dead end, then so what, you just look for another route from there. By looking at each step in it's own right, you will never feel as though you have wasted any time. When you finally reach the summit, then you don't only have the view from the top to enjoy, but you also have the memories and joys from all the paths you took, successful and unsuccessful!!

Almost finally, I have found it much easier to enjoy the journey since I decided that who I am today is ok. I can be more tomorrow, if I choose to be, but what I am today is ok. I must say that I often hear Michael's words 'and that's ok, but if you change, then that is ok to' when I think of this. If you consider the sky as a metaphor for how we are, sometimes it is clear, sometimes it is cloudy, it is never the same, but it is always perfect.. Love who you are and how you are every day and you are more likely to find the power you desire to change....if you choose to.

Finally, in spirit of the Tao, our journey can be likened to a trek across mountain ranges. Up a mountain, down into a valley, then up a mountain again. Always remember that there can be no light without dark, no hot without cold, and no joy without sadness.. maybe you are just in a valley right now, so what, have a look around and enjoy the view.

My experiences. Thanks for reminding me of them.

Namaste,

Andy

[Kayleigh]

Thank you all. It's funny, as a child, I always wanted to do things my way and I was very strong minded, I knew what I wanted, but now in my early twenties, I had lost trust in myself to do anything any good and that I deserve it. It makes me laugh and cringe how some of your comments sound apologetic. It is not any of you I am angry at! This boils down to a basic happiness/success connection.

Thank you all again and if you have anything else to ad, it would be much appreciated.

P.S. Can anyone recommend a good NLP practitioner in the West Midlands UK? It might be worth a try Mark. Thanks

[rollthered]

just 2 observations;

why does it make u cringe that anyone is apologetic in their advice? I would say tentative rather than apologetic anyway.They are merely being respectful and mindful of the fact that is impossible to venture forward proper summary advice when all the factors of your story are unknown...so the suggestions are delicately proposed out of a respect governed by not knowing your whole story..Someone with less awareness would just say straight up' DO THIS...(OR the dreaded 'YOU SHOULD')why would that level of respect make you uncomfortable/cringe?
 
secondly, i could be way off- but in some ways you appear to crave advice, but yet you seem to resent getting it...almost  a duality or contradiction going on. You have obviously explored numerous methods, and while you lay out your confusion for inspection, which is to be applauded,and what this is all about.. I sense that it is a dilema for you as to what to do with the constructive advise, and there is an element of dismissal...I say this twofold.
a) Because it is something I do myself, and I can see it in you, a level of frustrated feistyness, and a deep knowledge somewhere hidden in you, that you actually know you have that you have ur own answers and that some part of you resents being in a positon where you feel enfeebled, or need ot ask for help and that you are only in that position because of a self-sabotage at ur attempts to progress
 2) you said it is not those of 'us' who have offered advice that you are 'angry at'. It begs the question WHO is it you are angry at? being angry has zero to do with a happiness/success connection. They are two seperate issues....

Are you angry at needing help? At not being perfect? At admiting you are not perfect? And angry at being so angry at urself that you know better than to sabatage age old workable principles that could help?

what if...just what if...you let ur anger go. What if you just let it slide? then what?why do you need to hold on to that anger? Does it serve you?

 What if you just accepted your od definition of 'perfections' itself is imperfect. Perfection doesn not mean 'without flaw or weakness'. It just means that something 'being' is as it should be..perfectly imperfect.
It is hard to help soemone that wont help themselves for whatever reason....and someone who always has the answers...believe me..I am that person. I get it. But people can help..and want to. This message of mine may sound like 'tough love'....i am just trying to awaken you. I knwo ur smart, and strong and struggling...but let it in. And let the anger go.

[Kayleigh]

You are right on many points. I am angry at all those things. Not just that I am not perfect but so far from what i want to be and do that it almost feels like an impossibility. I know the answers but don't want to take responsibility. Plus, I feel if I'm not angry at myself I fear I wont make a change. When I referred to the happiness/success connection I meant I feel I have to be angry at myself (unhappy) and the things that haven't helped to move away from them. I didn't mean to cause any offense to anyone trying to help at all, so I apologise if anyone felt that. What makes me cringe is that my frustration causes this tentativeness. I am not used to gentleness at all as a way of moving forward. Wow I actually feel pretty upset realising this!

[rollthered]

Dont worry- storm before the calm. ps its easy to give advise- it doesnt mean I have it sorted...just in case u were wondering- but u are bingo- right. Its about taking responsibility, not beign the kid anymore and taking decisons, i AM ALL for beign youthful and bright spirited, but ur not 8 any more, and much and all as being 8 meant you could duck loads of responsibilities...it doesn make for a happy adult, not to fell they can cope with the curveballs life throws.If ur making ur decisons... be they right or wrong- at least if YOU take them and they work out...well then good on u...and if they dont, well so what, its a learning curve, but ur claiming ownership over ur life.....parents etc dont govern u anymore.unless u let them..and in a way stepping up to the plate sucks, cause it involves all the nasty boring realities that come with responsibility, but it also leads to empowerment...so dont be sad...its a lot to be realising. but dont listen to me..listen to YOU!  Life is no cruise .but things wont alwasy look so taggliatelli!

tomorrow is another day- THANK GOD

[rollthered]

Dont worry- storm before the calm. ps its easy to give advice- it doesnt mean I have it sorted...just in case u were wondering- but u are bingo- right. Its about taking responsibility, not being the kid anymore and taking decisons, i AM ALL for beign youthful and bright spirited, but ur not 8 any more, and much and all as being 8 meant you could duck loads of responsibilities...it doesn make for a happy adult, not to feel u can cope with the curveballs life throws.If ur making ur decisons... be they right or wrong- at least if YOU take them and they work out...well then good on u...and if they dont, well so what, its a learning curve, but ur claiming ownership over ur life.....parents etc dont govern u anymore.unless u let them..and in a way stepping up to the plate sucks, cause it involves all the nasty boring realities that come with responsibility, but it also leads to empowerment...so dont be sad...its a lot to be realising. but dont listen to me..listen to YOU!  Life is no cruise ...its full of rough and smoothbut things wont always look so taggliatelli!
thats me done- sure what do i know!

tomorrow is another day- THANK GOD

[peter108]

Kristen

Hi, I've been following your thread here and would like to share a few points with you.
Where has being angry with yourself gotten you so far? If you are not getting the results you want do something different!
You end your last post saying that your finding it difficult to accept moving forward with this gentleness.
Well we could try the way that your used to which from the sound of your other posts was not very helpful to you and a lie to who you really are.
There is only one true way of moving forward in life and that is "LOVE". Start with your self and then the rest will take care of it's self.

If there is nothing else you ever do in your life , that one thing will open your heart to others and you will not need anything else.
You won't find love in a book.
You won't find love on a web site forum
You won't find love in a concept of getting somewhere. The highest truth is there's no where to go, your already there, just look at your own truth.
Love is not a goal it's life it's self, it's what you are. This has nothing to do with romantic love. I'm talking about unconditional love for your self and others. It is beyond criticism and flaw. It is the highest ideal, and it is a million times more powerful than anger at achieving positive results.

Stop beating your self up and realize that people out there care about you just because you're you. You don't have to become some thing, you are already it. You always have been, and you always will be.

We live a short time on this planet, live life with love for your self and others and try to stop finding fault with something that is not there.

It would be so much easier to water this truth down with suggestions and ideas, but why beat about the bush. People don't use this four letter word enough in it's true context.

Why not take a gamble and try it out, it's free. What's the worst that can happen?

Best wishes and Love

Peter

[Kayleigh]

That's true Peter. Simple is not the same as easy. Accepting myself and conditions is one thing, but liking them just kind of feels like a lie and at the times I have done this, I still haven't moved forward. It all boils down to the same thing really. That we can only do these things for ourselves. When I don't love myself, the worst thing isn't that alone, it's that I feel bad about hating myself so much.

To be honest, I didn't really know what loving yourself meant. In this, I thought it meant I had to think the person I am, is ideal. I tried to make myself think I was more of a success than I really was and that again was of course a lie and didn't get me anywhere. I've been hating myself for not going for my dreams at all, for feeling a complete failure, when I guess what is in order is compassion. To realise I have my reasons for being the way I am without turning them in to excuses for not moving ahead. It's like a tape from my childhood is still running without my realising it, except it's got more viscious than the original "Why are you so oversensitive?" "Why are you so unconfident?" Along with "Don't be a big head it doesn't suit you" when I did praise myself. I don't actually hear these words, it's just a feeling so familiar that I don't realise it's so obvious.

Thank you all for your input and patience here.

[peter108]

Kristen
there seemed to be a lot more clarity in your reply, which is a good thing.
You mention compassion and that's one good way to treat your self, you might want to try acceptance.
Acceptance means that you accept your self just the way you are, NOT what you think you should be, not what others tell you to be or believe you should be.
If you accept that to get to where you are RIGHT NOW you have had to learn lessons, may be hard lessons in life, and realize that this has been a personal journey that only you could take.  It's unique, and it always will be. And it's got you to the point of asking big questions in your life. This is a very important cognitive achievement that many do not reach in their lives!
You really are not as far away as I think you believe yourself to be from a clearer perspective on yourself and life.
Confusion is the stage before learning and that's good that you are confused , it might not feel like it , but it is.

The loving yourself means to accept that you do not get motivated, that you accept that you hate yourself sometimes, that you accept that things sometimes seem hopeless.
Then just accept that being a human being is all about those things and more. They are lessons for you to learn, it has brought you this far and is making you ask questions. That's good.
Start from where you are , and realize there is no other place you could possibly start from!

Life has it's ups and downs, that's all part of this drama , this game, laugh at yourself if you can and remember that you are not alone, we are all part of this game
and contribute somewhere to someone in someway.

Now give me a BIG SMILE.......................................
that's the one!!!

Best wishes and love

Peter






 

[Elese]

Thanks Kirsten, you got a lot of thoughts here, really good ones.  Well  you asked for experiences and this springs to mind.  You know the programme on tele (UK) I think it's called 'Build a New Life In the Country'? Anyway, here's the tale:

Young couple with two small kids, sell up and spend all their money to buy an old barn in Wales.  The place is a disaster, they give themselves very short timelines and have only 12K left in their budget to fix up what is essentially a stone shell (no kidding, dirt floor, no electrics, no windows, etc...). did I mention the the husband is doing to do all the work?  Well, he is.  Alone. All of it. In six months. To cut short, they run out of money, borrow 30K, still refuse to get any help in, wife gets pregnant so cannot help with the work anymore...husband is filmed building a wall of local stone...stone by excruciating stone and they are six months behind schedule with winter at the door.  (this is not a joke!). 

At this point the television presenter is even visibly upset about the situation, knowing there is very little hope of them not ending up bankrupt, homeless and on tele. So with great concern he asks the husband "What are you going to do? You've no money.  You're months behind schedule, the baby's due...I can't see how you are going to ever do it" To which the husband replies, most genuinely, "I guess I'll just have to work harder!"

We do work so hard don't we? There are goals to meet.  There's perfection to attain.  If it works for building a barn, then maybe if I just work harder! More study, more seminars, I dunno...Eddie Izzard says, "You don't just find happiness, you PURSUE it. You hunt it down.  'C'mere you g'dam happiness! (pointing an imaginary rifle at it) bang bang! Get over here happiness! Kerpow!" 

Both these make me think how many times I've pursued happiness with goal-driven vengence.  Then used the inevitable frutstration as a source of frustration itself... Right now the way I try to break the cycle is to stay quiet.  Quiet down or slow down at times other than the designated meditation slot in my day.  When I'm lucky I think of Welsh barn and laugh - since usually what I need to do is act less and listen harder. 

peace and love,

Elese

[rollthered]

  That message was only brilliant Elese! I will think of welsh barns too...(and you shooting Mr .Happy bang bang! !)

big cheer and quiet calm

Me

[marksherwood]

HI Kristen,

There is plenty of 'food for thought' in the previous excelent posts isnt there ?

You are in the West Midlands and I am in Milton Keynes so if you wanted to meet for a chat I am more than happy to meet up with you.

I often work in Birmingham, so its not really out of my way.

You decide.

I should warn you however, that copious amounts of 'Latte' would be required 

Mark